Posts by Anders Andersen

25

Dutch JW to be investigated by government-appointed commission

by Anders Andersen in

today a government meeting re.

child abuse & jw was held.

see this post.

Anders Andersen

Bobby,

The goal of Reclaimed Voices is not to bring down Watchtower. The goal is to push Watchtower to make changes and improve their child abuse handling policies.

34

Am I Overreacting Here?

by pale.emperor in

let's call him "dave".. dave: hello?.

dave: we dont have to tell you how she is.

dave: <her mother> has custody.

Anders Andersen

First, you left your daughter's beautiful name in your post. Maybe you want to change that to improve anonymity?

As for the topic at hand: don't bark at the wrong tree. Your mother is not really a party here.

If you and your ex have agreed to keep each other informed on your daughter's whereabouts, your beef is with your ex. Plan some time and sit down with her to discuss this.

Your mother and sister being rude cult followers is painful and very annoying, but seems not really relevant for the question at hand.

Peace...

113

No Bible = No God?

by menrov in

some doubt about the bible completely, some partially.

what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.

would you still believe in a creator?.

Anders Andersen

Perry,

As cofty explains, these people didn't necessarily all lie, they may very well have truly believed Jesus rose from the dead.

Strong emotions can make people 'experience' weird things.

Strong beliefs can make people 'experience' weird things as well.

Combine the two, and quite strange stories may result.

Could it be that the women actually saw the gardener, not a ressurected Jesus? Could it be that the gardener decided to play along a little bit, for whatever reason (maybe simply to comfort those women)? Could it be that the other disciples were so much influenced by the words of the women and their own emotions and desires that they too perceived the gardener as being a ressurected Jesus? Could it be that the gardener took off once things went too far, and the his disappearence became a mythical ascension when the stories were written down decades later?

It's all quite plausible. To me more so than someone being raised from the death.

Countless other events might also explain the stories.

People are known to be highly susceptible to suggestion and delusion.

(Some very nice examples can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria )

Regardless, the stories about all this were written decades after the alleged facts, by people who by then had a belief system completely depending on the story being true. They might have added some elements here and there. Just a tiny claim about how many people witnessed an event. Just a tiny anecdote about Jesus entering a locked room or showing his stigmata. Just a story about angel Moroni and his golden plates. Just a story about seeing a cross and In Hoc Signo Vinces in the sky.

All that is not unheard of. People are known to sincerely misremember events that happened long ago. They are known to embellish stories about their country, their religion, their leader.

What is really the difference between some of the extraordinary claims collected in the Bible, and similar extraordinary claims made by others?

Why believe one, not the others?

113

No Bible = No God?

by menrov in

some doubt about the bible completely, some partially.

what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.

would you still believe in a creator?.

Anders Andersen

@Perry,

My point is: if you're going to argue that eye witness accounts are trustworthy, why reject Mormonism (or any of the many other religious claims for which eye witness accounts exist) and accept only the 'eye witness reports' for the claims about Jesus?

I don't think the Mormons have a resurrection account that in anyway mirrors what happened in Israel with Jesus.

It's not about whose miracle is greater. It's about whether the accounts of such miracles can be trusted.

For Joe Smith's claims 3+8+1 eye witness accounts were written down by themselves.

For claims about Jesus, we could refer to the gospels but these were written decades after Jesus lived, by people who weren't eye witnesses themselves. The first written claim about Jesus being resurrected was written 20! years after the alleged event, by someone who wasn't an eye witness himself. Time and opportunity enough to have the stories turn into mythical narratives, as often happens when beloved leaders die.

Scholars, both conservation and non-believers place the events of the resurrection exactly where they are purported to be.

Scholars also know Joe Smith was a real person, and he lived right there were he claims the miracles took place. In many novels and books of fiction (large) part of the story take place in real cities, refer to historical events....but that doesn't mean all of such a story is true, does it?

Lots of other people have suffered died for their belief in something, true. But almost no one suffers & dies for something they KNOW to be a lie. This would have been the case in the 1st century.

Some people perpetuate a lie to gain power or money. Some people believe their own lies. Some believe other people's lies. Some believe because of ignorance. Some believe because they want something very badly.

Many people afflicted by the above would die for their beliefs.

Not too long ago I (and many others here) would have died for my JW beliefs. Now I know them to be false. Still 8 million JW would probably die for their mistaken beliefs. Does that mean the JW claims are correct?

Of course, to each their own...but I'm not really into accepting mythical stories as historical fact. Especially not given the rest of the book in which these stories are collected.

113

No Bible = No God?

by menrov in

some doubt about the bible completely, some partially.

what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.

would you still believe in a creator?.

Anders Andersen

@perry,

The LDS church has written documents containing eye witness testimony to Joseph Smith's claims. The names of these eye witnesses are even recorded!

These eye witnesses saw an angel and the golden plates, and they heard God's voice testify the translation of the golden plates into the book of Mormon was God's work.

In addition, their testimonies were written and signed by them. Compare this to some stories for which 'eye witness reports' were written decades after the fact by people who weren't even eye witnesses themselves and only wrote down hearsay. (Gospels anyone?)

Do you believe the LDS Church / Mormon claims that the Book of Mormon was delivered on golden plates by an angel and translated by the power of God?

21

Mea culpa..

by zeb in

jw
friends

just a few hours ago i took my wife (uber) to the hall with eats she had prepared as the cong are doing some work there.

i had not set foot onto the kh property in years and my stomach went into a knot as i did.

well what happened?

Anders Andersen

Zeb,

I hope you find much peace and quiet on your road to healing.

As for this part

Even in this mighty work I fear the wt has slipped the net as the final reports don't mention the many occasions where the wt elders were found most seriously wanting in their evidence. These fine needles of fact will not be there for the politicians to ponder when they deliberate what will become law or not out of the commission so has the whole thing been a waste of time?

...maybe it didn't give the immediate result you (and all of us) hoped for. The ARC had a different goal. It's aimed at getting the general picture so lawmakers could act.

However, the efforts you and many others put in the ARC were not in vain with regards to WBTS. For example, the ARC transcripts and concluding reports on the JW cases are used in the Netherlands to show the government that JW leaders cannot be trusted to respond honestly when under fire. To be able to prove that is of great value. For (those fighting for) victims of child abuse it makes the difference between [coming across as a mean spirited ex member with an axe to grind, falsely accusing honest clergymen of lying or hiding evidence] or [being seen as an honest concerned party who has to battle a machinery of JW leaders distorting the truth]. The commission that will be formed to investigate JW child abuse in NL has a different goal than the ARC. It will be JW specific. And whatever positive results come from it, it will be partly by your hand.

Your efforts are traveling both the world and the years. Thank you so much for all that!

I hope you find peace of mind quickly and indefinite!

4

Youtube (English subs) Dutch Government debate on JW Child Sexual Abuse

by jochie in

child sexual abuse within the jehovah's witnesses' community was on the agenda of a meeting by dutch representatives.

this is an editing of that meeting (only the relevant parts on jw) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7r_8blcw7q.

Anders Andersen

Thank you for translating and sharing!

14

So you're worried about the Big A, or the North Korean bombs? Sorry everyone, Japan is the one that has likely screwed us all.

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

heard much lately, about the fukushima nuclear disaster in japan?.

that is until earlier today when i found this article from last year, with dr. helen caldicott discussing the chernobyl disaster and fukushima.

she believes fukushima is uncontrollable and there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about it.. read the article: .

Anders Andersen

Skimming through the list of articles on that first website you refer to it appears to me as a somewhat sophisticated clickbait/conspiracy theory type website, not a reputable news source.

No doubt watching the video with the dear paediatrician doctor who has anti-nuclear books to sell would only confirm that feeling.

8

Late Night Show in the Netherlands - item about sexual absue and JWs

by jochie in

https://vimeo.com/256187135late night show in the netherlands, broadcasted 8 february 2018item about child sexual abuse within community of jehovah's witnessesenglish subtitles included.

i.

Anders Andersen

@RPT,

Regional radio and TV station RTV Noord has done several items on radio and TV as well. Not sure about others.
https://www.rtvnoord.nl/zoeken?query=reclaimed%20voices

And then there was the avalanche of newpaper/news site articles.

And still more to come.

The General Assembly (Tweede Kamer) will review the report of last week's meeting.
The Ministry of Justice will talk to JW leaders again.
A commission will investigate them.
The DA has been requested to go and collect the files from the JW.
Thirteen victims have already demanded their abuse case files from the JW.

All things that will generate more attention, more news....and hopefully, and most importantly: change for the better.

113

No Bible = No God?

by menrov in

some doubt about the bible completely, some partially.

what if the bible turns out to be a product of humans, nothing divine.

would you still believe in a creator?.

Anders Andersen

@menrov,

Fair enough. Works for me :-)

I believe there is a creator, as I think that design of a living thing is too complex to just have started.

This used to be my reasoning as well. Right until I realized that this creator would be 'living thing' having a 'too complex design' it/him/her/themself/ves.

To me it appears to be a reductio ad absurdum: life is too complex to come into existence by itself or from non-living matter (or non-living non-material 'things'), thus it needs a (living) creator. This creator is a form of life....thus...it also needs a creator....and so on and so on ad infinitum.

Or we must conclude the premise "life is too complex to come into existence by itself" is incorrect to start with?

Applying it to all forms of life except the creator would be special pleading.

Well, each person has their own thoughts about all that. As long as we're kind to each other I don't care :-D